Poll. If the 2008 Presidential Election were held today, who would you vote for?

Yep Lieberman should have gone with the rest of the dust and smagma that comprised the last administration.

i find it amusing that when the republicans don't support reform and vote party they are idiots, yet when one democrat doesn't tow the party line he should be ousted? why it that?

If you are speaking of Lieberman, he has not been a 'Democrat' for a while now, he is an independent that usually tends to 'vote' Democratic....big difference...

The beauty of the Democratic Party is that there are people of all thoughts in it from liberal left TO conservative right...and I do not recall anyone asking them to 'get out of the party'...They may be asked to 'explain' themselves or their opinions, but they wouldn't be asked to leave since the party is a Big Tent and welcomes all people, thoughts, races, genders, etc...

he ran as a democrat most of the time, so in my mind he is a democrat. i love your description of the democrat party, do those rose colored glasses help? as far as no one is asking him to leave, read some other threads, some people want his head on a stick.

That is a great description of the democratic party. The conservatives/republicans are so rigid in their ideology that they are cracking away from one another. Democrats/Liberals fight amongst themselves all the time.

Supporting a filibuster on your own party is a completely different story. If you don't like the bill then don't vote for it, as littleman has done several times, but for god's sake give this bill a chance!

democracy - the political orientation of those who favor government by the people or by their elected representatives

Where along the line did we lose this ?

For everyone that "wants to give the health care bill a chance" ... I have one question. Have you actually read the bill? I'd like to see an honest poll on that question especially by Congress.

Have you actually read the bill? I'd like to see an honest poll on that question especially by Congress.

LOL are we even allowed to read it before the voting.

LOL are we even allowed to read it before the voting.

LOL?

I downloaded it yesterday and will be reading it (and marking anything I find questionable to contact congress about) today.

You might just want to wait for Faux to give you the appropriate talking points; that is much easier.

Kate in Greensboro - That's impressive since it's roughly 2000 pages. You may want to give yourself a couple days.

That's impressive since it's roughly 2000 pages.

That's why I didn't print it! I'm glad I can highlight and bookmark PDF files! I doubt it will take a couple days, though.

Kate you are a better constituent than I. I have to much going on to read that whole thing this weekend. I will be one of the many that will try to stand on the shoulders of the few who can and do take the time to watch out for their fellow Americans by reading 2000+ page bills.

It feels shameful almost.

Go, Kate, Go!

Before you nominate me for citizen of the year, (as if!) keep in mind that I have a serious vested interest - I have serious health issues and can't get anything other than junk insurance as things stand today. It's purely selfish - I want to live to continue raising my sons and to continue contributing to society.

Kate - I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. I have a lot of health issues as well, but I'm fortunate. I am insured by my husband's employer and have Medicare as secondary. I do worry about getting cancelled all the time, but I realize that I am, by pure luck, in a better position than many others. I would be really interested to know what you think of the new bill. I doubt it will have any effect on me either way, but I pray that it helps you.

Palin one missed heartbeat from becoming President.

Oh thanks, Caryl; that's a nightmare prospect I hadn't thought about in months. If I can't sleep tonight I'll thank you. :p

Kate, for someone that admittedly only praises Obama for your own selfish reasons and wants me and other hard working tax payers to pay for the treatments of your illness(s) I feel that you, have not right to criticize The Gop VP Candidate. If Palinwas the one that wanted to give you free health care at tax payers expense and Obama didn't,you would be whoring you comments in her favor. You should just keep your thoughts to yourself and be thankful to the ones your knocking that make the income that will pay for your treatments if this bill passes.

I do hope you heal soon and am sorry your are sick and am glad I can help.

He has the right to say what he wants. On top of that he has the right to life liberty, prosperity and whatever else. Insurance companies make enough damn money off of the rest of us fortunate enough to get health care, that they can afford to insure anyone. If they can't then it is because some fat cat sitting in his castle throne is taking too large of a cut.

Everyone should be allowed to live a life as equally filled with happiness as anyone else. What is the point of health care if they can't insure people that are sick? I strongly believe that happiness is never full unless your peers are happy as well.

Lets get some health care reform passed, and stop shooting down ideas just because they aren't ours. ( That last sentence is mostly aimed at the dems and reps in senate and congress.)

Kate, for someone that admittedly only praises Obama for your own selfish reasons and wants me and other hard working tax payers to pay for the treatments of your illness(s) I feel that you, have not right to criticize The Gop VP Candidate. If Palinwas the one that wanted to give you free health care at tax payers expense and Obama didn't,you would be whoring you comments in her favor. You should just keep your thoughts to yourself and be thankful to the ones your knocking that make the income that will pay for your treatments if this bill passes.

I do hope you heal soon and am sorry your are sick and am glad I can help.

Budinski (#5.2) - I believe you have misunderstood or misconstrued.

I am reading the health care bill because of my vested interest in it being a sound bill primarily because of my personal needs. However, as a liberal I have long believed that we should have universal, single payer health care. I don't believe there is a good reason why anyone should go without health care in a rich, civilized nation such as ours.

My support for President Obama is a separate issue and his support for universal access to health care is only one of the reasons behind it. Your assertion that I would be whoring my comments for Palin if she were for health care reform is not only insulting it could not be further from the truth.

Whoring? Seriously?

You should just keep your thoughts to yourself and be thankful to the ones your knocking that make the income that will pay for your treatments if this bill passes.

If calling you a pompous ass is against the CoH then I'm pretty certain that you accusing me of whoring my comments is as well. It's none of your damn business, but I've paid for my treatments, I've worked my entire life and always been a tax payer, and I will not keep my thoughts to myself.

Going to church tomorrow so you can tell yourself what a holy person you are?

P.S. to Budinski (follow up to #5.4)

If you understood what the Public Option meant, you would know that it's not about TAXPAYERS providing FREE health care to me or anyone else - it's about providing decent coverage at affordable prices so that people like me can get health care - which we cannot today. I am more than willing to pay my way - AS I ALWAYS HAVE - but health care costs are out of control (thanks in large part to the for-profit health insurance industry) and without insurance or very deep pockets (like CEO/heiress deep) it is impossible to get quality care.

If these facts ruin your image of yourself as the poor over-taxed victim who must be savior to the lazy, shiftless, unwashed, well that's just too bad. That image is based on a lie and it's time that image, and the lies, are put to the death they deserve.

Tell him, Kate! I was going to just call him a nasty name, but you are so much more eloquent. Some people are so wrapped up in their own misconceptions, they can't be bothered to get the actual truth. They are so afraid they will do something to help someone else. Luckily, their ignorance shines brightly for all to see them as they really are.

When I talk to people from England, Canada, France or Australia. They seem to divide into two groups by wealth and the wealthy hate the system while the working class love it.Interesting split?

I am reading the health care bill because of my vested interest in it being a sound bill primarily because of my personal needs.

So as long as it benefits you, your for it?? Screw the cost to the American tax payer as long as Kate gets something, that's all that matters. Let just do every thing KATE wants to do.

I don't believe there is a good reason why anyone should go without health care in a rich, civilized nation such as ours

Besides the fact it's already in place corrupt and in need of fixing,I have a great reason, It's not Obama's money to spend as he and the hard left liberals in congress think it is. It ours. Did your parents ever teach you it's better and means more to earn something you want?

Your assertion that I would be whoring my commentsfor Palin if she were for health care reform is not only insulting it could not be further from the truth.

Sorry about my word choice Kate. I may not agree with you but I respect you and your right to speak your mind. I was out of line. I still don't get why libs hate Palin. Lots of nasty childish stabs but that's all. I still maintain Obama had not one advantage over her in as far as qualifications for the presidency. The one heart beat thing that gave you nightmares? And you'd sleep tight w/Biden?,the good ol boy politician or the scare me to death and never wake up Nancy (i spit up in my mouth) Pelosi.

but I've paid for my treatments, I've worked my entire life and always been a tax payer, and I will not keep my thoughts to myself

And you're right there too, sorry (about your thoughts)

Going to church tomorrow so you can tell yourself what a holy person you are?

If that was a insult towards my belief in God it didn't work. No my wife had to work today and i enjoy her company at church so we aren't attending today. No Kate, I'm at the very botton of the list for "Holy Person Candidate School" I believe in and love Jesus but fall way short of being the man I should be.

if you understood what the Public Option meant, you would know that it's not about TAXPAYERS providing FREE health care to me or anyone else - it's about providing decent coverage at affordable prices so that people like me can get health care - which we cannot today. I am more than willing to pay my way - AS I ALWAYS HAVE - but health care costs are out of control (thanks in large part to the for-profit health insurance industry) and without insurance or very deep pockets (like CEO/heiress deep) it is impossible to get quality care.

Gee and all this time I thought that this trillion dollar (initially) reinvention of the wheel had draw backs like lots of new taxes and government control over the people and lost incentive for doctors to practice medicine cause the gov thinks they are making to much income and on and on, including the lies the other 50% of the nation that has brought up similar concerns with hopes of a compromise but are left out of the decision making process.. I guess I just am guilty hoping this president would try harder to join the people instead of dividing them...knowingly!

If these facts ruin your image of yourself as the poor over-taxed victim who must be savior to the lazy, shiftless, unwashed, well that's just too bad.

It's not "must" it's " being forced to"

That image is based on a lie and it's time that image, and the lies, are put to the death they deserve

You don't get out much do you? Cause if you did you would see that the lie is what you said above.

I still don't get why libs hate Palin.

Do you understand why anyone disagrees with you on anything or do you even try to respect anyone else's viewpoint?

I think there are thousands of people who have articulated plainly why they do not trust Palin to be a leader in the government of the United States.

To 5.8.

If the insurance companies hadn't been irresponsibly declining people health care for so long it wouldn't be a problem.

Is kate really the selfish one here? I don't think so. Health care needs to benefit everyone. If the insurance companies would quit screwing around and get their setup straight maybe we wouldn't need health care reform. As is, greed has taken over these companies and they deny people the health insurance that they deserve, and in many cases desperately need.

You are complaining about the way health care is supposed to work. Everyone pays in, some people won't use their worth on the insurance costs, and some people will. The point is that if you get sick, and incur a $10,000 hospital bill, you aren't ruined. Everyone should be entitled to this same privilege.

Cowgirl, your response is the same as the thousands you speak of....you and they just reference others instead of a no BS list of why you hate her.Something other than that she's stupid and has those dreaded outdoor skills. I'm not ready for her to become president but good grief you people treat her like she ate your kids. And yea I understand why people disagree w/ me. There pissed cause I'm right. :-))

ryne-keel, My beef is not the fact that the system needs fixing, it does!! it's the us against them attitude of Reid & Pelosi as this thing is being drafted. Our president would really score some points with myself and thousands like me if he would demand that everyone in congress quit acting like frickin children (both sides) and show him a bill that has the best ideas of both parties. I know you all are confidant that Obama and company can't screw up but a trillion dollar (our money) roll of the dice to fix it all in once wave of the wand is in my opinion is reckless. Eat the elephant a few bites at a time not all at once. That would be the action of a peoples leader. Right now I he's just acting like a high school kid with very rich parents. And as far as selfish? Perhaps I am. If I stole 10 % of your paycheck weekly because I need additional money and you demanded it back would you be selfish? If your answer is that you would give it up then send me 10% of your check. I could sure use it.

sorry i got a little intense there but i missed your second poll where you include others. I only saw the first poll with Obama and McCain and thought maybe you should have had an "other" choice tere.

Profchaos

Too bad your guy (Romney) QUIT. I wouldn't have voted for him because he's a quitter. Sarah Palin took a page out of the book. So you must be so proud of your quitters.

This one was tough. I didn't like Pres Obama, and I didn't like the Sen McCain/Palin ticket either. (puts on flak jacket), I did vote for McCain/Palin and wouldn't change that. In truth, the ticket had some pairs on there I had never even heard of..it was not a "comfortable" voting process this time. I just didn't, and still don't, feel Pres Obama is being up front about his plans. I know he has press conferences almost daily, but, the substance of what he is passing and his actions in passing a funding bill with pork attached (which he said he would never do) and his "post anything non-emergency online for 5 days before signature" (which he hasn't done), just re-enforces my thoughts that he is hiding too many things.

I agree with ProfChaos that Romney would have been a much more viable candidate.

Debeki...Romney had more of a following with independents. Since many states do not allow registered independents to vote in the primaries (including the state in which I live), to me, the action of his not staying in the lead was misleading. I was sincerely hoping that McCain would choose him as his running mate..I think that ticket would have been much stronger than McCain/Palin.

To the general, I take exception to this constant, "one heartbeat away" garbage. VP Biden is also just "one heartbeat away" from becoming president since medically, anything could happen. Those using that stupid analogy are making the assumption that McCain would have died as soon as he stepped foot in the oval office. Don't get me worng, the thought of Palin as president was just as much of a nightmare as thinking that VP Biden could also be president.

way to project there debeki. I think sarah palin is kind of a dunce. but thanks for telling me what I believe. I wasn't sure there for a second and needed someone to tell me. why do so many on this site tell others what they think and believe?

For rational people, the thought of Palin as President would be a much greater nightmare by orders of magnitude than the thought of VP Biden becoming President. I would suggest that the majority of Americans including Republicans know without any doubt that Palin is unqualified to serve in any capacity other than perhaps "Going Rogue" if that.

And I would also suggest that the greater majority of Americans consciously or subconsciously understood that Senator McCain most likely would not be able to effectively deal with the constantly varying high degrees of stressful situations faced by this President at this critical time in America.

We needed a high-energy multi-tasking President to lead at this time and there is no way to convince other than perhaps a minority few that Senator McCain would have been equal to moving forward on and carrying out the great many necessary critical tasks that has been undertaken by President Obama.

I always try to include an option for everyone

and that's why almost 1/3 of the respondents claim they're in love with you !

If McCain would have chosen Romney as his running mate, the out come may have been different.

I voted Obama, but I have always liked John McCain, and I probably would have voted for him, but then he chose 82 IQ as his running mate. 8 years with a idiot, I couldn't deal with another one being a breath away.

I'll agree with you there. Palin destroyed that ticket. I felt like McCain was an alright chap, but his chances were ruined right there. I was worried for like 2 days though, then I was like, no one would vote for that! Then I was really really really mind boggling worried that someone might vote for that! It was a very stressful voting season.

How do you know those folks don't love you too?

Oh Snyder it's just that all us wingnuts in Hell are lonely and would appreciate your company !

part of the discontent is the immediate gratification syndrome that so many seem to suffer from

Another part is to blame Obama even when his plans work or to call him a racist, communist, socialist, fascist,or all of the above.

What I think funny is that in 2003, we were told by Republicans that we could build a shining democracy in Iraq in six months time, and Republicans have had unending patience in the six years that this has failed to materialize.

Democrats said up front that Bush's dismantling of America would take a significant amount of time to fix, and Republicans are plaintively whining about how if Obama is so great, he should already have saved us.

Talk about your double standard.

Desperation can be sad.

Absolute double standard. Thanks for discussing that iarnuocon.

The Messiah can turn fruit into Whine ! (I spelled that correctly)

Who is this "Messiah" you right-wingers are always speaking of?

R. Donald Snyder

Duh - Thanks.

"Last poll - what is RDS?"

gosh, I think I started that months and months ago...I usually use only initials when responding to people...and it caught on...:)

My problem with Ron Paul is that he runs as GOP, but he's a Libertarian. If anything, he should be truthful enough to run on the Libertarian ticket.

It'll be interesting to see who the Libertarians put forth for the next election. It is highly likely that we could see three-party system in the United States. It would probably last for one term and one-term only.

i would love to see that!

I voted McCain as the anti-Obama vote as well.

Hopefully NY23 shows us something.

Ms redhead...I agree with you...unfortunately this last election was truly the pick of lesser of two evils...and I dont think party lines matter anymore...they all have the same agenda..they just go about getting the American people to buy into them in different ways...I voted for McCain...even hesitantly...for many reasons off topic here... mostly because I felt Obama more decietful..(yes, I realize they ALL are)but would have loved to see Ron Paul go...and hope he does next time...and I dont care which "side" of the ticket he has to be on...its what he believes in and the honesty that I believe is sincere.....Ron Paul all the way...

If Ron Paul were truly honest, he'd run as a Libertarian, not as a Repub. His excuses for doing so (to get on ballots, etc.) are weak. Stand up for your true ideology, or look like the weak dithering person you are, Paul.

I thought Ron Paul was interesting, a different voice. So I checked his record. The only thing different was his voice - his actions were pretty much in line with most politicians. Say one thing, do another, lie about it, shift the blame, don't rock the boat, say anything to get more contributions. He's not alone, but that is my point - he is no different.

You did not check anything for full of Bull and if did as you say check anything where did you check in 'Space.'

He is the only honest Politician period. And you must be a communist like the other dems who believe in discrimination by passing hates crimes laws which provide unequal justice.

Where all screwed. 'George Carlin'

MichelleUT (#11.2): My problem with Ron Paul is that he runs as GOP, but he's a Libertarian. If anything, he should be truthful enough to run on the Libertarian ticket.

The Jones Girl (#11.6): If Ron Paul were truly honest, he'd run as a Libertarian, not as a Repub. His excuses for doing so (to get on ballots, etc.) are weak. Stand up for your true ideology, or look like the weak dithering person you are, Paul.

I get both of your points about Ron Paul needing to be honest and run on his true ideology. However, it really isn’t that easy to do. In my state it is almost impossible for a third party ticket to get on the ballot without a LOT of grass root (financial) support, and forget write-in candidates, which are not taken seriously at all. The other two parties are too entrenched and will make it very difficult for a third party to get on the ballot. I still don't know much about Libertarian Party, but it can't be any worse than the Republican or Democratic Parties. If my position is anything to go by, I believe 2010 is going to be the year a third party has a fighting chance to compete with Republicans and Democrats, because neither party is paying attention to independents and moderates. The not-so "silent majority" of Americans, who are being mislabeled by both Republican and Democratic supporters, are tired of NOONE LISTENING and their anger will show up at the polls in 2010.

Ms Redhead...I agree again with your post...I dont really understand why everyone has to argue over the "party lines" problem...I dont believe there is much difference...just in the way they go about it...Paul at least for what its worth calls for an investigation of the Fed...and if one watches Jeckyl Island documentary ...it will disappoint the hope of true humankind..as the leaders have bought and sold us....probably even Ron Paul...sadly...but Obama has no intention of doing what he "said" and couldnt anyway...hes snuggled up to the same elitists Bush was...

I usually dont respond to nonsense bashing but in the case where someone said Paul was dithering...I would pick dithering over charismatically deceitful ANYDAY....

The reference to Rocky & Bullwinkle just makes your comment so much better.

absolutely, i LOVED mr peabody.... and can i come to the picnic???

cheers!

R. Donald

I'll bring the hot dogs

I'll bring LOTS of KETCHUP for the hotdogs!

how about some mustard for that ........hotdog.

obama and would do so again.

Hmmm, since I'm a baker and kitchen witch, I'll bring muffins, cookies (yes, even my White Chocolate Harvest Spice ones), and a Spice Cake!

(I won't even cast my wiccan prayers over it, so we won't turn into an orgy! Y'all know what seed I'm speaking about. ::laugh::

Yummy!

Rahlly, white chocolate harvest spice sounds really good!

(I won't even cast my wiccan prayers over it, so we won't turn into an orgy! Y'all know what seed I'm speaking about.

I didn't see the seed but heard about Pat Robertson and CBN warning about Halloween candy being prayed over by witches and containing demons. Are these people for real? Don't they have something better to do? Beware the twisted Twizzler torment, the Kit Kat kurse, M&M inspired S&M, incubi and succubi! No candy is safe, not even from grocery stores! The commentary I heard warned that demons are sneaky and they have probably already infiltrated Christmas candy that is bagged and ready for sale and are eagerly waiting to possess and torment an unsuspecting public.

Fruitcakes abound! (No pun intended lol)

If ya want the seed is here... it's hilarious, I read the article and being the sneaky witch I am shared it with some people... they almost had asthma attacks from being unable to breathe, they were laughing so hard. But being the good girl I am I should have remembered her asthma!

As for the white chocolate harvest spice cookies.... ummmm they are scrumptious. I melt a cup of white chocolate into the cookie. It took me a while but I add the melted chocolate to the butter/sugar and mix until it's whippy, then add the food color, by that time it's cool enough that I can add the eggs without cooking them. I need to find green mint chips, for christmas trees, my nieces love em, especially when you use christmas spice. I'll use white chocolate dyed red for other things.

Simply amazing! It reads more like something from "The Onion" what with time-released curses (do those come in gel tab and capsule form?). And I wonder if the anti-Luciferians had a problem with gathering around the bonfires when they were roasting heretics. Maybe election day needs to be changed to a less demon-influenced time of year. But with those pesky time-released curses would any time be demon-free?

I'm so glad I didn't get to vote. While I liked Palin for a while, she now seems like a useless clown and it would have been a nightmare if they were elected.

I voted McCain too. He beats obama hands down when it comes to experience. Although, if there had been another Republican on the ticket I might have gone with them. I'm a little uneasy with McCain.

Chris,False wars?Could you possibly make a more stupid statement.Are you realy going down the road the Bush Lied again?For Christ sake.

he did.